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I’m all for trans rights, but I’m not sure what people want prisons to actually do here.
So the issue is, trans women want to be housed in women’s facilities. But the state says they are biologically male, so they are housed in men’s facilities. Trans advocates are saying they are subject to sexual assault in men’s prisons more so than male inmates because they present as female.
The problem with citing the Eighth Amendment (freedom from cruel and unusual punishment) is that it does not exclusively apply to transgender inmates — and I don’t think anyone is suggesting it does. The issue is the women in women’s prisons, if you introduce a person who is (in the eyes of the law) biologically male, you’re violating the Eighth Amendment of the women at the women’s prison. At that point, if a person can just choose which prison they go to, why not just integrate them? This would cost more and have higher taxes, and nobody wants to pay that.
I did a bit of Googling, and I’m no expert, but it seems like some states will house a trans woman in a women’s prison if she’s had bottom surgery (that is, she has a vagina), and in some cases, has changed her official identification (which requires the bottom surgery). The issue here is, not every trans person wants bottom surgery. There are plenty of trans women who have penises, and they want to be housed at a women’s prison — honestly, not unlike cis male inmates at a male facility, they would love to be the only penis-having inmate at the women’s prison.
And therein lies the problem. It seems like the states are saying “you have a penis, you go to a men’s prison, you have a vagina, you go to the women’s prison.” It’s not about trans people because (at least in some cases) it isn’t affecting trans people who have completed bottom surgery.
I don’t know what we can or should do about it. I do know the US has taken steps to prevent prison rape. If a person assigned male at birth is taking steps to present as female, but has not (or does not want to) completed bottom surgery, it seems like prison is not a good place for them.
So maybe we should stop saying “be gay, do crime”. Because that sounds like the worst thing a gay (or any LGBTQ+ person) could do.
Final thought: not everyone with a penis will rape someone with a vagina and/or presenting as a female given the opportunity. If that were the case, you wouldn’t be able to have daughters if you have sons and vice-versa. Some states do require separate bedrooms/changing areas past a certain age, but requiring them to be housed separately would not work in our society. Growing up Gen X, I personally did not have sisters, but I knew guys who did, and they would be alone with their sisters (sometimes also with 1-3 brothers as well, with the girl the only girl there) and I never heard about any sexual assaulting. Granted those are siblings, but still. Most people don’t want to rape anybody, even if they have the means and opportunity.
Replies (3)
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There are plenty of trans women who have penises, and they want to be housed at a women’s prison — honestly, not unlike cis male inmates at a male facility, they would love to be the only penis-having inmate at the women’s prison.
What in the Sam Hill are you talking about? Putting aside the extreme weirdness of this comment… you do understand not all trans women are attracted to other women, right?..
What a weird, weird angle to approach this from.
Growing up Gen X, I personally did not have sisters, but I knew guys who did, and they would be alone with their sisters (sometimes also with 1-3 brothers as well, with the girl the only girl there) and I never heard about any sexual assaulting.
I don’t know where to start honestly. Nice anecdote, I guess.
Here, why don’t you educate yourself with some nice reading about the rates of incest crimes and rates of sexual assault on trans women instead of posting weird stuff on lemmy.
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There are plenty of trans women who have penises, and they want to be housed at a women’s prison — honestly, not unlike cis male inmates at a male facility, they would love to be the only penis-having inmate at the women’s prison.
What in the Sam Hill are you talking about? Putting aside the extreme weirdness of this comment… you do understand not all trans women are attracted to other women, right?.. and that not all trans women who want bottom surgery have gotten it yet, or can afford it?..
What a weird, weird angle to approach this from.
Growing up Gen X, I personally did not have sisters, but I knew guys who did, and they would be alone with their sisters (sometimes also with 1-3 brothers as well, with the girl the only girl there) and I never heard about any sexual assaulting.
I don’t know where to start honestly. Nice anecdote, I guess.
Here, why don’t you educate yourself with some nice reading about the rates of incest crimes and rates of sexual assault on trans women instead of posting weird stuff on lemmy.
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I’m not sure what people want prisons to actually do here.
Be abolished.
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