@atpfm@mastodon.social With my solar-battery-support-group hat on: #solar #battery In one sense, it is right to say “solar with PowerWall … is incredibly expensive, INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE” as @caseyliss@mastodon.social points out It is indeed “car money” (in my terms), whether second-hand car money (or what we used to think of as that) or new car money … sure Two things there: The ROI on this stuff is incredible now, when done right, give or take, etc: Because it can cut your power bill by 150%, the return on investment hits at around 5 to 10 years. Provisos yes — but you’re getting the picture here when you sell into a wholesale market (5 or 30-minute auction prices, not “retail tariffs”) and use the “duck curve” of demand You can automate against real-time prices with a provider like we have (press a button on their app), or just wangle Tesla’s app to time-shift lunchtime energy into dinner time energy — either way, leaving thunderstorm reserve enabled (like when PowerWall sees the forecast) The day I installed my batteries, I was planning for “off the grid” mentality. A week later, I was in a different mindset, like Uncle Sam — “the grid needs YOU!” Second thing: “Expensive” compared to what? Cars? I see the same dollar values get different emotional reactions, because cars: It’s a bit like human years versus dog years. Death, taxes and automobile expenses? It gets starker when the same person is discussing EV battery size, possibly from the same factory. Or compared to houses? I struggle to think of any room that would be cheaper to renovate, than a solar or battery installation. We don’t talk about “pay back period” for our new kitchen or bathroom, do we? Batteries CAN make sense on their own when solar isn’t an option, and instead of a 150% ballpark reduction, it’ll be closer to 50%. Just remember that even in winter, you can import more kilowatt-hours than you export, but still break even or turn a $1 profit. The demand curve is everything. This is why I’m not super bothered by time of year, or different latitudes either. Solar production will be 3x more in summer, and there’s a similar delta between cloudy and sunny, but the roofs are big and the panels are cheap: “Overprovisioning” is NOT a dirty word. We say to everyone: Size for winter, not for summer. Solar is also CRAZY good compared to just 2020 — anybody who quotes a calculation more than 5 years old, needs to start again. Panel output has improved out of sight. And don’t forget, installers give free quotes for inspection, design, parts and installation. Definitely some are cleverer than others — but they will charge the same, like-for-like. (And to change to a different “like”, is an easy edit for them — they’re invariably happy to reissue a quote for a brand swap or capacity change). And unlike generator setups — think Dave’s Garage — there’s no failover time. Not 5 or 15 seconds. Instant, no dips, even for desktop PCs. (If you have three-phase you might want a battery on each, to avoid the sub-second brownout). Where I live now gets little brownouts once a year, and some years get a 1-hour blackout. That’s fine for laptops and fridges, though I could really do without the forced reboots this caused on my “real” computer. When a tornado took out the local substation, 4 days felt like 8. In case you think you could manage: The 5G cellular network was alive but had zero effective bandwidth; all the neighbours were slamming it, because their fibre modems needed 12 volts (and their wifi needed power too). Cellular is designed for VERY different user ratios. I was literally driving half an hour to load up Netflix shows on my iPad, using the cell in another suburb that had functioning download capacity. Batteries and solar are a great way to decentralize energy production — become a producer, and say no to rental energy. Be your own energy landlord, or as TechConnectify Alec put it, harvest instead of extract.