@nolsen311@infosec.exchange Ugh, I hate this completely lukewarm take that's been stated so many times before. The terrorists didn't win. What they wanted was the destruction of Israel, the withdrawal of the US and other powers from interference in the politics of Islamic countries, and the establishment of an Islamist caliphate. They have gotten none of those. They were surprised by how forcefully the US fought back. Now, did they also make things worse for us in the process? Yes. Did they advance the cause of Christian nationalism? Yes. But that's not them winning. They made things worse for themselves and for the rest of us. It's not always the case that in interaction, someone wins and someone loses. It's possible for everyone to win (most trade interactions). It's possible for one to win and one to lose. And it's possible for everyone to lose. This is an example of the latter; they lost, the American people lost, a few billionaires, authoritarians, and Christian nationalists are taking advantage of the situation to win. Anyhow, you are right that 9/11 was a drastic accelerant for the surveillance state that we're now in; I'm not disagreeing in the least, I strongly agree there. But people need to stop with "the terrorists won." Everyone but a few authoritarians lost here. They didn't achieve their goals, but they did make life worse for a lot of us.